"Learning from bad writing"

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Ian Rudd

"Learning from bad writing"

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Posts: 717

(11/03/08 05:57)

Poet Laureate of
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What does anyone think of this old chestnut?

I prefer to learn from good writing. I find bad writing too painful to read. Also, I worry that I will pick up bad habits. If you recognise the mistakes you knew them in the first place. I think "learning from bad writing" is a bit of a mistake.

I have experienced many bad drivers but I have yet to learn anything from it other than not to get in a car with them ever again. I could say the same about books/authors.

Stephen King says in his book On Writing "...often bad books have more to teach than the good ones."

"...love will find its way/Through paths where wolves would fear to pray,..." -- Byron

katshakespeare

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Posts: 34

(11/06/08 11:41)

Before I became an editor, and before I began writing seriously again (by "seriously" I mean to be published), I was in a writer's group where we critiqued writing - and I did learn 'what not to do' -- but, I'm not sure it was always consciously - it was more a subliminal message, I think.

I've always said, breaking the rules is a good thing, but you should know the rules before you break them -- so, many times "bad" writing will break rules in a way that is like the discordant note in music.

Now that I'm an editor, all the "mistakes" blare out at me - even in published works!

Kat

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"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

davidthomaslord

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Posts: 1443

(11/10/08 09:56)

Literature Scholar

I think it could be true...after you've read all the good books.

katshakespeare

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Posts: 40

(11/30/08 03:23)

davidthomaslord - I just LOVE your icon of the figure banging on the keys until his fingers are bloody, then his head - it's so gruesome at the end, but so danged halarious all the same! *laughing!*

Kat

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"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

davidthomaslord

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Posts: 1444

(12/07/08 01:33)

Literature Scholar

Thanks, kat. I loved it from the first time I saw it and love it still.

I have to agree with Ian that there is little to be learned from bad writing. If you recognize it as bad, you're already past learning from it. If you don't even recognize it, you're not ready to write. To me, that chestnut is as bad as "Write what you know!" I much prefer that writers be taught "Know what you're writing!"

saundrakane

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Posts: 47337

(12/07/08 03:05)

The Boss Lady of the BS Board

David...great seeing you again. I have been wondering how you are

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Saundra Kane
Bestsellers and Literature

Ian Rudd

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Posts: 727

(12/10/08 06:16)

Poet Laureate of
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David, I agree. I can't recall ever learning anything from bad writing. I think there is very little to be learned and it is very general.

"Poetry is thoughts that breathe, and words that burn." -- Thomas Gray

katshakespeare

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Posts: 58

(12/29/08 01:59)

When I think of "write what you know" I don't think of that in the concrete or literal sense but more being true or sincere to the writing. For instance, a reader knows when the writer is faking it or trying to get away with something or "not writing from the core of their heart" (not to sound clichey or anything). So, 'writing what you know' could simply mean, tapping into something you have within and tearing it out of yourself, instead of trying to write what you think someone wants to read or mimicing another writer because you aren't listening to your own "voice" -(and when I say "you" I'm meaning "in general terms you" - not You to anyone specific here! )

Not sure if all that made sense!

Kat

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"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

Ian Rudd

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Posts: 742

(01/02/09 05:43)

Poet Laureate of
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I see what you mean.

"Poetry is thoughts that breathe, and words that burn." -- Thomas Gray

katshakespeare

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Posts: 61

(01/02/09 08:23)

Honestly though, all those "writer cliche's" are just that. I attend conferences or whatever and hear writers or editors or agents say "Do This...Do That...Don't Do This...Don't Do That...the secret to success is This..." but really, rules are made to be broken. And how often do we hear how someone "bucked the system" with success. Hmmm, maybe what David said IS better- know what you're writing!

Kat

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"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

Ian Rudd

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Posts: 744

(01/03/09 05:52)

Poet Laureate of
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Yes, it is important to take all advice with a pinch of salt no matter who it comes from. Some of the greatest writers give the worst advice.

"Poetry is thoughts that breathe, and words that burn." -- Thomas Gray

katshakespeare

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Posts: 67

(01/04/09 05:46)

Yeah, writers would say, "If you don't write (this much) every day, then don't call yourself a writer...and if you don't do this and so, then you aren't a writer..." PAH! or I'd hear, "I never watch television - it takes away from my writing - how can a writer watch television when they can be writing?" and I used to think "oh geez, I watch tv! i'm a crappy writer! I'm not dedicated as they are!" PAH!

Being a writer does take discipline -- and I usually do write something every day - or most days, even if it's just a blog post. But, I'm also an editor, so when not writing, I'm usually doing that....I'm rarely "away from the business" - but sometimes I feel like watching TV! I feel like goofing off! Huhn...give me some Scrubs or Office or even that (can't believe I'm admitting it) - Big Bang Theory sitcom (teehee)....

Kat

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"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

Ian Rudd

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Posts: 745

(01/08/09 02:55)

Poet Laureate of
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Definitely. I agree. Always dismiss any writer who says "this is the only way" rather than "this is what works for me and why, it might work for you" etc.

There are not many writers who give really good advice. I know of only a few, one in particular.

"Poetry is thoughts that breathe, and words that burn." -- Thomas Gray

AirPrang

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Posts: 1727

(01/09/09 12:18)

All of the writers I talk to about their craft and have worked with over the years have completely different approaches, including when, how, where. The one thing they do have in common is that they are all committed to their practice. They all make the time to write, whether it be a dedicated hour first thing every morning or night, a mad burst for days then a break, or something else. They're all different and all living in different circumstances with different responsibilities and other demands on their time, so a 'one size fits all' approach that some of the golden rule proponents put out is clearly nonsensical.

As for learning from bad writing, well if you're learning from Dan Brown or Stephanie Meyer, it's that 'bad' writing can work it you're a sufficiently compelling story teller. Oh, and Mathew Reilly too.

katshakespeare

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Posts: 74

(01/09/09 06:33)

Oh no you di'nt say that *laughing* -teehee - but it's true. If some writers have a compelling story, the writing can slide, sometimes (most times) really unfortunately. And, sometimes good writing and good stories are paired and then WOW! I love that. Like Donna Tartt - although, I'd love to have had my editor's hands on her novels, just a leeeetle bit - just a few things here and there.

Kat

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tender graces
"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

AirPrang

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Posts: 1741

(01/11/09 06:33)

Editor's hands? You are very polite and understated. I loathed The Secret History so much that I gave it away to the first person who expressed interest, just to get it out of the house.

katshakespeare

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Posts: 79

(01/11/09 08:28)

Laughing! Well, I admit to some skimming...but she can write..okay, she over-writes sometimes (but I do, too, I think- as does Stephen King)....but, I read her second book - the little ...the little...shoot, Oh! The Little Friend - and I liked it better. Everyone else says they liked the SH better - not me - I thought TLF was the better book - still a bit over-written, but I didn't have that urge to skim whole pages at a time as I did with SH.

Kat

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tender graces
"O, what men dare do! What men may do! What men daily do, not knowing what they do!"
-Shakespeare

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